Hugh Thomas

00:00:00:00 – 00:00:28:02

Speaker 1

Welcome to water for fighting, where you discuss the past, present and future of water Florida with the people who make it happen. I’m your host, Brett Cyphers. This week’s discussion is brought to you by Sea and Shoreline and Resource Environmental Solutions. Since shoreline is the southeast leading innovator in protecting coastal communities from devastating storms and restoring ecosystems that once faced ecological collapse.

00:00:28:04 – 00:01:01:12

Speaker 1

Visit their website at blue Dot. Seeing shoreline.com. And of course, rez. Rez is a nation’s leader in ecological restoration, helping to restore Florida’s natural resources with water quality and stormwater solutions that offer communities guaranteed performance and outcomes. Check them out at rescues. All right. This episode’s a real treat for me, because I get to sit down with a true gentleman and my friend Hugh Thomas, in addition to being an all around great guy.

00:01:01:12 – 00:01:23:21

Speaker 1

Hugh is the executive director of the Suwannee River Water Management District, where he has been since 2016. In fact, he served Floridians throughout North Florida for over 20 years, including 14 years with the Florida Department of Consumer Services in the Office of AG Water Policy. Hugh and I overlapped our service to North Florida at adjacent water management districts for five years.

00:01:23:21 – 00:01:30:05

Speaker 1

He had Suwannee in me at northwest, and I’m happy to get to hang out with him again today. Hugh, welcome to the show.

00:01:30:07 – 00:01:32:08

Speaker 2

Thanks, Brett. I appreciate the opportunity to be here.

00:01:32:10 – 00:01:51:23

Speaker 1

Yeah. It’s great. It’s great to have you. I’m going to come in with the first big curveball, because it’s kind of like someone telling you that the Pace Picante sauce is from New York City. You’re a North Florida guy at heart. That’s all I’ve ever known you in the context of is North Florida. But you were actually born in Tampa.

00:01:52:04 – 00:02:00:11

Speaker 1

In fact, in a hospital that no longer exists. So the question is, what did you do to break the Good Samaritan hospital?

00:02:00:13 – 00:02:22:17

Speaker 2

Well, my memory doesn’t go quite that far back, but I do remember actually going to the hospital when I was about five years old to get some stitches. I get three brothers and a sister. And growing up as the youngest of the family, you know, I often encountered physical ailments from that one time that I needed stitches. So I do remember going back there, but thankfully hadn’t been back since then.

00:02:22:17 – 00:02:35:16

Speaker 2

But I had no clue what happened. I think it was just progress. and that area, it’s over on the western side. Or was on the western side of Tampa. And, like the remainder of the state, it has grown. They needed something else here.

00:02:35:18 – 00:02:54:19

Speaker 1

I assume is like a Paul Bunyan esque story. Like, if you don’t know, Hugh Thomas, Hugh is about the size of Paul Bunyan. He looks like a lumberjack. And so my assumption is that they couldn’t handle him at the hospital. But we’ll take we’ll take his story as a as the gospel there. But like I said, you’re a Norfolk guy through and through.

00:02:54:19 – 00:03:00:14

Speaker 1

So I mean, tell me about your parents. Like where are they from? And then what took them to Tampa?

00:03:00:16 – 00:03:25:17

Speaker 2

Well, what I would say I do call North Florida home and kind of a fifth generation Floridian. And so my parents were actually from North Florida. They moved away for about 30 years and then moved back up into that area. and so they were gone. And North Florida, Gilchrist County, primarily, and they’re in Bell, Florida. It’s a very rural area, very small county.

00:03:25:22 – 00:03:50:12

Speaker 2

They moved for work and they live down in the Lithia Springs area. Okay. But at one point my dad worked on the dairy farm and opportunity presented itself after three of my brothers moved out. Opportunity presented itself for my parents to move back up to North Florida. I’m glad they did. And we got a lot of relatives that part of the state, so it’s enjoyable for us.

00:03:50:12 – 00:03:56:02

Speaker 2

My wife and I’ve been able to raise our three kids there, and we’ve really enjoyed living in North Florida.

00:03:56:04 – 00:04:13:15

Speaker 1

So you use Tampa in the same way most people do with, say, Tampa, Orlando or Atlanta, which means you didn’t live in Tampa. I you know, I do the same thing if somebody doesn’t know where Stephanie is, and if you’re talking to somebody, they almost never do know where Stephanie is. It’s actually a little bit north of Lithia.

00:04:13:15 – 00:04:20:06

Speaker 1

I grew up going to Lithia Springs as a kid. Was it the the Carey Cattle Company back in those days or someone else over there?

00:04:20:09 – 00:04:22:22

Speaker 2

I’ll be honest, my memory doesn’t go that far back either.

00:04:23:00 – 00:04:24:01

Speaker 1

That’s our that’s I.

00:04:24:01 – 00:04:38:16

Speaker 2

Don’t recall what the name of the cattle company was that they that he worked at there. He had already quit by the time I was born. Think he was. Oh, he was working for Altman truck lines down through there. And, he was able to retire from there. And we moved to North Florida.

00:04:38:18 – 00:04:41:14

Speaker 1

So how long did your family live down in under?

00:04:41:18 – 00:05:02:14

Speaker 2

They left of North Florida. They were going for about 30 years. They lived in the Tampa area there at our residence on Walters Avenue of all places. Wow. They were there for, I want to say it was about 18 years. Okay. They had lived over in Lithia Springs. The notice assets at the time, my dad was working at the dairy there.

00:05:02:16 – 00:05:19:15

Speaker 2

My mom was a stay at home mom, you know, with five kids. You know, that lot in that time frame? Yeah. I mean, we’re talking 50 years ago or longer and it it was a lot in that area. Yeah, I’m glad to. Nothing wrong Brian. With the Tampa area. But I like to think I’m more influenced about North Florida.

00:05:19:19 – 00:05:25:00

Speaker 1

Yeah. No that’s in that’s great because you I mean your parents graduated high school in Bell, right?

00:05:25:05 – 00:05:26:13

Speaker 2

Oh yeah.

00:05:26:15 – 00:05:32:20

Speaker 1

How many kids? I mean, your dad’s a question. I know it’s rules. Like how many kids were in a in their class in those days. You even know. I mean.

00:05:32:23 – 00:06:01:00

Speaker 2

There were six kids whenever my parents graduated in high school. Conversely, when I graduated in 80 from Bell, there were 33 in my graduating class. You you tell someone that nowadays. And I mean, but that’s just speaks to the rural nature. And sure, in Bell and, Gilchrist County, we I think Bell got a caution light probably about for somewhere close to about 45 years ago.

00:06:01:02 – 00:06:22:01

Speaker 2

And that’s all they still have right now. But if you look at the school system, they’re they’re an A-rated school. They have been for several years. Both school systems. you have Trenton and Bell, both school systems. They are rated very highly. And when you speak to people that have moved into the area now, that’s one of the the criteria that they’re looking for are good school systems.

00:06:22:07 – 00:06:27:23

Speaker 1

Yeah. I mean let’s talk about that a little bit. First. Were you always the size of Paul Bunyan?

00:06:27:23 – 00:06:50:12

Speaker 2

No I wasn’t yeah. Like I said I am I will tell you I am the tallest of any of my siblings. Okay. That unfortunately didn’t do me much good until after they had already moved out. But it’s, you know, growing up in a rural area, I was really able to enjoy a lot of the outdoor activities. Gilchrist was and still is primarily agriculturally based.

00:06:50:14 – 00:07:17:19

Speaker 2

And so I did grow up on working on a lot of farms. We had cows at our place ourself and, you know, just grew up in high school. That was the thing at the time is you spend your summers working on the farm, whether it was harvesting peanuts, it may be pitching watermelons. It’s interesting you think about it, I remember and Short Tail and and I went out to a watermelon grower one time when she was director Swanny and I took her out on a tour.

00:07:17:19 – 00:07:38:07

Speaker 2

And now the majority of what are grown are small, personal size melons. Well, back then you had 50 and 60 pound gres or crimson sweets that were grown, and it was a workout. And it was great for the football team for prepping for fall football practice because you got to work out during the summer. That is a, you know, it was enjoyable.

00:07:38:07 – 00:07:44:17

Speaker 2

I really enjoyed my childhood and I’ve tried to preserve some of that for my kids growing up because I think it’s a it’s a good lifestyle.

00:07:44:18 – 00:07:48:08

Speaker 1

Let me ask you this. You met your wife there, right in in Belle.

00:07:48:08 – 00:07:48:20

Speaker 2

I did.

00:07:48:20 – 00:07:51:14

Speaker 1

Right it. Was she in your graduating class?

00:07:51:20 – 00:08:19:09

Speaker 2

No, she was not. I ironically, her oldest brother and I were classmates, and she was a nuisance. And I’ve told her this. She was a nuisance then. But after I graduated and went to community college, my now brother in law, he went to school over at the university right away and just kind of lost touch with him. Didn’t see her for probably about 2 or 3 years.

00:08:19:11 – 00:08:34:14

Speaker 2

And all of a sudden whenever I was back in the area more often, it regained my, my interest. And has held that ever since. So now she is she does have a lot of family in the area there. Okay, girl, having grown up, since she was a young child as well.

00:08:34:19 – 00:08:41:05

Speaker 1

Yeah. And you eventually get married around the time you were at the Lake City Community College, right?

00:08:41:07 – 00:08:44:18

Speaker 2

Actually, it was shortly after I finished up at Lake City.

00:08:44:18 – 00:09:02:17

Speaker 1

I mean, the reason I asked is really to talk about the two of you. Talk about you two as a couple later on. So after you get together, whether it be, you know, just before marriage or getting married, you talk about starting, starting that family in that place. That’s a small one that you’re working to preserve.

00:09:02:19 – 00:09:26:23

Speaker 2

We had a nice, long honeymoon. It lasted about 12 years, and that was by choice. We wanted to do some traveling. She always enjoyed camping, as did I. Growing up. We did a lot of a lot of camping up in the Smokies, and we had a good time with that. During that time frame, we built our first house over on the east side of the county there in Gilchrist County, and then kids came along.

00:09:26:23 – 00:09:45:09

Speaker 2

You know, kids always change your outlook from then on. But, you know, we worked together a lot. She’s a great work partner. We built the house ourselves, contracted out some of the specialty work that was done, but that was a good exercise. I highly recommend it for couples to build a house. You probably never do it again. Well.

00:09:45:11 – 00:09:53:05

Speaker 1

I mean, I read the you were actually in construction in some of those early days. Was that at that time that you were building the house or did you that before?

00:09:53:06 – 00:10:20:06

Speaker 2

Actually, the working construction predated us building our house and had been in construction for about two years, and then prior to us getting married, I had actually purchased some property, over on the eastern side, seven acres. And, we decided that we wanted to build a house over there. So we did over the course of about probably about 8 or 9 months, we constructed the house, and I was still working in construction at the time.

00:10:20:06 – 00:10:47:20

Speaker 2

And then I actually left private construction and went to work over at the University of Florida and worked there for a couple of years with the Division of Housing and Construction. Edward got to work with Edward Foster. He’s now retired from over there. Great gentleman. He taught me a lot about masonry work such that at the time, and it had come in handy several times, actually, even up until last year of doing tile work and renovations, interior renovations.

00:10:47:22 – 00:11:06:22

Speaker 2

So that’s that’s still handy. I enjoy doing that. I enjoy working with my hands. Woodworking is a hobby of mine as well, so it worked out very well. While I was at the, the division of housing there in Gainesville University. And then in year three, I decided I wanted to go back and get my degree. So we did.

00:11:06:22 – 00:11:13:10

Speaker 2

My wife was I was working over at Shands there at the time. We carpooled back and forth together.

00:11:13:13 – 00:11:15:09

Speaker 1

What was she doing for a living at that point?

00:11:15:11 – 00:11:33:22

Speaker 2

At that point, she was working as a secretary for the Department of Neurology. Okay. There. And so, you know, it gave us a good, good ride back and forth, the commute time going over there. It’s interesting to see how over the years that commute time has stretch. Now is about an hour and a half, from where it would have been.

00:11:34:01 – 00:12:03:11

Speaker 2

And so, you know, it just speaks to the amount of growth that’s occurred, on the western side of Gainesville there. But I remember giving a keynote speech to, graduating class there in Trenton a few years ago. And one of the things that I spoke about was determination. And whenever my wife and I were both in school, there she was going to school at at Santa Fe Community College, which is kind of the North Gainesville, and of course, the university.

00:12:03:15 – 00:12:25:07

Speaker 2

It’s located where it’s at. Well, it’s about 14 miles between the two and so we would walk in or we’d ride in together. My wife would drop me off at work, unload my bike. We had a small pickup truck. We drove back and forth and, I would unload my bike and I would go to work, and then she would go on over to class.

00:12:25:07 – 00:12:43:00

Speaker 2

Well, then in the afternoons, she would take the vehicle and go out to Santa Fe Community College, and I would take off work because I was working full time. Still, I’d take off work and then I’d go to class at night, and then I’d bike out to Santa Fe. That’ll help your health out. Yeah, yeah, I need some of that now.

00:12:43:00 – 00:12:50:16

Speaker 2

I don’t know that I can hold out for that type of ride, but it was it was a good friend. About the time I would get out there should be getting out of class and we go on home.

00:12:50:16 – 00:12:52:11

Speaker 1

And that’s hilly territory as well.

00:12:52:12 – 00:12:53:19

Speaker 2

Well it is, it is.

00:12:53:19 – 00:13:06:06

Speaker 1

So was it always your plan to work and go to and finish school at UF, or was there something there that was happening? Is like, was it working there and saying, I can do this. You actually these kids out here, I can do this?

00:13:06:07 – 00:13:32:04

Speaker 2

Well, my oldest brother is he retired as a school teacher several years ago, but he taught down in Hernando County and he retired out of it. And he loved teaching. And I’ve always enjoyed teaching or speaking about something that, you know, and trying to trying to train or mentor someone with it. And I’ve always enjoyed the outdoors and biology.

00:13:32:05 – 00:13:55:10

Speaker 2

So whenever I was at the university, I pursued a degree in zoology with a minor in biology education, because that’s where I wanted to be wanted to go to. I realized when I was at Lake City Community College, I was on a civil engineering track and I really enjoyed parts of that. But physics with calculus just, I learned, just was not my strong point.

00:13:55:12 – 00:14:20:03

Speaker 2

You know, I just realized I wasn’t a numbers guy at that point. And anyway, so whenever I was at the university did, pursue their zoology track and, biology minor, and whenever I graduated, there weren’t any teaching jobs locally for biology teachers, which is not unexpected at that time, but an opportunity provided itself at a local consulting firm.

00:14:20:03 – 00:14:38:22

Speaker 2

In fact, at that time it was environmental science and engineering. And and so when I graduated, I went to work there. Great job. I worked for ten years. The biggest drawback that I had about working as an environmental consultant at that time was the number of name changes that we went through in a ten year, which.

00:14:38:22 – 00:14:39:22

Speaker 1

Is just happens.

00:14:39:22 – 00:15:13:16

Speaker 2

Yeah, it does. That’s part of it. But it enabled me to meet a lot of great people, environmental scientists and engineers as well, working in that field as it was known at that time. That was actually one of the first engineering environmental engineering companies in the Gainesville area. And so with that, I was working in the I was hired in the toxicology lab that we had there and worked my way through there over the course of ten years working in toxicology lab and then also doing risk assessment and wetland delineations, wetland certifications on there.

00:15:13:20 – 00:15:23:07

Speaker 2

Great opportunity. I learned a lot, gave me a lot of exposure with it. And and I really enjoyed that type of work. And that’s always helped me over the years.

00:15:23:09 – 00:15:52:05

Speaker 1

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00:15:52:07 – 00:16:16:20

Speaker 1

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00:16:17:01 – 00:16:40:13

Speaker 1

To find out how you can partner with Sea in trying to protect your community, visit them. Dot sea and shoreline.com. You’ll be glad you did. All right, let’s get back to the conversation. Let me let me pause for a second, because there are a couple of things, like I get folks that ask me about some of the technical aspects of some of the things the that that guests do.

00:16:40:13 – 00:17:05:02

Speaker 1

And so there’s two that I want you to talk a little bit about. And folks that aren’t familiar with engineering firms don’t realize that it is pretty circular. It is. It’s a life where folks tend to move around that businesses tend to buy other businesses. Right. Is that can you talk a little bit about that in those in those early years?

00:17:05:02 – 00:17:29:22

Speaker 2

To me, over the course of that ten year period, as you stated, there was a lot of transition between companies being bought out and sold. There was a lot of streamlining that occurred at that time. Whenever I first went to SC, there were about, I want to say, somewhere in the neighborhood of about 550 employees here because they had a large analytical lab also, and they did a lot of Department of Defense contracts with that.

00:17:30:00 – 00:17:51:13

Speaker 2

Well, there were some transition. Some of those contracts were lost at the time. And so the the company downsized. It also was sold at that point when I left that company, I want to say there were an analyst in Shoretel was still at that company at the time. That’s where I first met in. As I recall, they were somewhere in the neighborhood of less than 100 employees there.

00:17:51:13 – 00:18:15:05

Speaker 2

They had downsized kind of to a bare bones environmental firm at that point. Mark Giblin was working there. And I think, Mark, if I recall correctly, we’re going back a few years now, but I think Mark was the office manager at that point. Whenever I left no fault of his right. But it is people in those fields. They do tend to operate for one or, you know, another company over time.

00:18:15:06 – 00:18:36:08

Speaker 1

It’s what creates, I think, that maybe unique among the types of work that one can do in Florida is it’s it’s such a small world. It is like if you I didn’t realize this, if you’d asked me, you know, ten, 15 years ago, I would have never known that this, that that’s how you all got to know each other is because everyone eventually works with each other.

00:18:36:10 – 00:18:37:17

Speaker 1

It seemed. It seemed like to me.

00:18:37:21 – 00:18:52:17

Speaker 2

No, you’re right, it is. And, you know, I think I think back now, some of the engineers that we have that work for the district, some that have worked for some of the other districts and even while I was at the department, they are all people that I had worked with previously whenever I was in consulting.

00:18:52:17 – 00:18:58:07

Speaker 1

Well, let’s get to that, that job itself. Because what does someone who works you said the toxicology lab.

00:18:58:07 – 00:19:00:04

Speaker 2

Toxicology lab. Been there.

00:19:00:06 – 00:19:03:11

Speaker 1

What is what do you folks do in the toxicology lab?

00:19:03:11 – 00:19:33:10

Speaker 2

Well, it’s as with the regulatory program, you know, at the water management district, we work with environment resource permits within the regulatory realm. Also, you have what’s called National Pollution Discharge Elimination System permits in PDS that industrial operations have to have even within the agricultural fields, dairies, large dairies, CAFOs, confined animal feeding operate have to have in permits, and they’re within the state.

00:19:33:12 – 00:20:01:15

Speaker 2

DEP has regulatory authority over those. So with that, if there is a discharge of wastewater from that particular industrial operation, commercial operation, they have to meet water quality standards for that. And so with that, there has to be sampling that occurs. And SC they actually provided those sample sampling activities to gather those samples in. Then you utilize biological animals.

00:20:01:16 – 00:20:24:19

Speaker 2

It could be minnows could be the blue crabs depending on what the permit calls for. And then you do a chronic and acute toxicity to determine what the lethal concentrations are of a pollution discharge. And the effects of that could be reproduction. it could be some type of chronic illness. One of the most interesting things that we that projects that we did was actually with blue crabs.

00:20:24:19 – 00:20:36:01

Speaker 2

And we looked at the influence of a, a discharge within an estuary and the effects that it had on the number of moles that we blue crabs go through. So it was kind of kind of interesting for me anyway.

00:20:36:02 – 00:20:54:18

Speaker 1

Yeah. No it is. And that’s I mean, that’s why I asked I like I think it looks like, oh, that sounds like, that sounds like a job. And I want to get a little deeper and, and for folks out there that you know that don’t know about, I guess I’m speaking to Gail Halpern. So when you’re listening out there, Gail, I can you can give me your follow ups later on.

00:20:54:20 – 00:21:11:07

Speaker 1

So tell me, tell me about our mutual friend Doctor and Shoretel who’s who was the executive director? the Swan River Water Management, and also Saint John’s later on. That’s right, that’s right. Oh, I mean, she was my boss at DC. Tell me, how long were you at SC together?

00:21:11:13 – 00:21:37:00

Speaker 2

Well, as I recall, and was there whenever I started, she was working in another group. She was in the risk assessment group. I started out in the Environmental Assessment and Toxicology Group, which is a separate, separate area, probably 5 or 6 years. I mean, I knew Irvin and we had some encounters, them via projects, but probably about the last four years, I actually had good opportunity to work very closely with her.

00:21:37:02 – 00:21:58:08

Speaker 2

I consider her as a friend. She’s been a great mentor over the years. I remember one of the jobs that we had that was her project. It was a DoD project that we had up at Eglin Air Force Base, and we had some, a couple of other staff from SC up there. And she was there was a project manager, and we were doing some assessment work, and it was hot.

00:21:58:13 – 00:22:26:06

Speaker 2

It was hotter and blazes. One of the pictures. I still got it somewhere. We are all out on this range and the only shade around this was like in August and the only shade around was from the telephone poles that were there. And so there’s like four of us lined up in the shade of that power pole while we were waiting on an activity there, just trying to find a cool spot with it, but had a lot of great interactions with and over the years.

00:22:26:06 – 00:22:45:02

Speaker 2

And as I said, she was a great mentor relative to risk assessment. Certainly on the wetland evaluation, wetland criteria, work that I was able to do and getting my certification for that. And over the years when she went to DEP, I was happy to see her there. And I was thankful whenever she came over to Suwannee, I had the opportunity to work with.

00:22:45:02 – 00:22:58:07

Speaker 2

There I was at that time, I was working for the Office of AG Water Policy, Department of Agriculture, and so I was able to work very closely with her at the Water Management District, and we’ve remained friends over the years with it.

00:22:58:09 – 00:23:08:14

Speaker 1

Well, talk and talk for a minute then about that work at the Department bag because you left USC or if, if it was still named SC when you left.

00:23:08:16 – 00:23:15:01

Speaker 2

No, it was not actually Mac tech, which I think I think it’s still today. There you go. There you go. It’s a around.

00:23:15:01 – 00:23:20:21

Speaker 1

So so you left Mac Technical to talk about why you left and talk about your work there.

00:23:21:00 – 00:23:54:07

Speaker 2

Well I left my priorities changed a little bit. As with most environmental consultants and engineers can tell you there’s a lot of travel involved. And I decided that I wanted to be more engaged with my kids. And so, you know, an opportunity provided itself. The Lord blessed me with being able to have an opportunity to go to work for the Department of Agriculture and Office of Water Policy and work to develop best management practices, and also to work on a program called the Swan River partnership.

00:23:54:07 – 00:24:25:20

Speaker 2

And I’ll come back to that in a minute. But my work at the at that time with the Department of AG, I was hired as a coordinator for the the Santa Fe and Lower Suwannee Basin for the Swanee River partnership. Well, the partnership is a it was actually a both a private and public entity that was started in 99 and the department of the Suwannee River Water Management District and also DEP headed up the coordination of that.

00:24:25:22 – 00:24:55:12

Speaker 2

Well, they decided, due to some foresight with doctor, Martha in her last name, evades me at this point. And also Jerry Brooks, he, if you recall him, do Martha Roberts is what I’m thinking them and also Jerry Scarborough, who was at the Swan River Water Management District for a number of years. It was their vision to have shared positions between those three agencies to work together primarily at that time for with agriculture.

00:24:55:14 – 00:25:22:13

Speaker 2

And so I was hired in as a Dak’s employee and was able to work in that capacity. My office was located at the water mains Swanny. And then opportunity provided itself. Later on, I got to work with Daryl Smith. he was the one that actually hired me, and I’m not going to say recruited, but he made me aware that the position was open, but he was aware of my work in the consulting industry.

00:25:22:13 – 00:25:49:08

Speaker 2

And so anyway, I was able to get hired and worked there for, 14, 15 years with a swag water policy. I really enjoyed my time there. Got to see a lot of progression with the BMP program and, the innovation that has come about relative to the implementation of BMPs and be able to work with agriculture, agriculture and make such a large footprint in the Suwannee District.

00:25:49:10 – 00:26:11:20

Speaker 2

And so, you know, it was very instrumental trying to work towards water quality goals. Right. initially and then more recently towards water supply concerns that we’ve got a lot of great people there as well and the Swag water policy, and I’ve continued to stay in touch with them at this time. 2016 I got to go over to the water Management District.

00:26:11:20 – 00:26:36:13

Speaker 2

Daryl had moved over to the Water Management District in 2015 at the time, and between he and Noah Valentine, who was an executive director at Swansea at that time, I was going to say I would was recruited at that point to come over to the water management district and it provided a great opportunity for me to kind of go back to the home area, because the last five years, I think it was about starting in 2010.

00:26:36:14 – 00:26:51:23

Speaker 2

I was an environmental administrator for the Department of Bag in. That was a lot more traveling. That’s when you and I had our first, encounters in northwest, because I was in charge of the programs in northwest Swansea, in Saint John’s.

00:26:51:23 – 00:27:15:00

Speaker 1

I’m not asking you to say like, well, this is worse or this is better, but the difference in having something that’s it’s kind of new and fresh, which is this one river partnership back in those early days. And you do that for a while and you’re narrowly focused on, hey, we’re going to fix we’re going to fix this thing and, and solidify these relationships between not just agencies, but between agents, the government and, and farmers.

00:27:15:02 – 00:27:30:15

Speaker 1

and then and then you go from that to guess what? Now you’re in charge of all of North Florida. You know, I was I was glad to meet you, obviously. But tell me about the the difference in change in your scope to something much broader.

00:27:30:17 – 00:28:01:11

Speaker 2

Well, it one it allowed because my focus had primarily been on agricultural practices in the Suwannee District, although I was aware of the parts of the state and even across the nation, it allowed me to see firsthand, particularly out in the Panhandle, because the amount of agriculture that goes on out there, the different practices and challenges that producers in those areas have, a lot of it is due to the soil, that are out there in the types of crops that are grown with it.

00:28:01:11 – 00:28:47:12

Speaker 2

And it it enabled me to make a lot of great acquaintances yourself included with that, and to really broaden some of the opportunities where we had started programs in the Suwannee Basin. I think Brian predated us with the farm programs. Right. They have down in the Swift mud area, but Suwannee utilized funding from all three of those agencies that I mentioned previously, and to develop cost share programs and try to be innovative with technology and making fertilizer use and water use more efficient, and to try and be able to expand that out into the northwest area and even over into Saint John’s with their cost share programs and assistance programs that they have now.

00:28:47:14 – 00:29:10:01

Speaker 2

To me, was it was very satisfying to be able to bring those types of practices, you know, with best management practices. The intent and definition of those is to try to get a practice in place that’s protective of the environment, and it’s practical to implement. And not everything is that way. And so that’s why the Department of make tweaks as BMPs from time to time.

00:29:10:05 – 00:29:10:12

Speaker 2

Sure.

00:29:10:16 – 00:29:27:20

Speaker 1

So you kind of take the at least very familiar faces. You work with these folks a lot and I’m thinking Daryl and and and so you all know each other well. And so you put this dream team together. Now that I mean, you’re not together for very long at the district. Where are you when you’re in about 20 years?

00:29:27:20 – 00:29:29:08

Speaker 1

Only a handful of years.

00:29:29:08 – 00:29:54:14

Speaker 2

Well, Daryl was actually in Tallahassee working with the Office of Water Policy. Right. He said whenever Rich Beadle stepped down as director there in about 2010 timeframe, he Daryl filled in that role right there for some time and and was hired in 2012 right at the water management district there. Swanny. So, you know, we had probably 3 or 4 years here together.

00:29:54:16 – 00:30:06:02

Speaker 2

and that respect and is an idea person always has been that can create a rub sometimes to get to the details. But that’s okay. He’s got to have an idea person there. Yeah. And she, she provides that role very well.

00:30:06:08 – 00:30:32:00

Speaker 1

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00:31:01:01 – 00:31:30:17

Speaker 1

Discover more about their work and commitment to Florida’s communities and the environmental challenges they face by visiting Dory’s. Discuss. All right. Now back to the conversation. You mentioned, Brian, and you know, it’s absolutely right. It’s like when I looked at at northwest at the Water Management District, looking at how our relationship with agriculture would be in in the types of practices that we wanted to get into in a program that we wanted to have.

00:31:30:22 – 00:31:57:11

Speaker 1

We looked at two places, though, and one of those places didn’t happen to be the Department of Agriculture, although we were familiar with from my Swift, my days with those programs and how they they matched up sometimes with where swift mud in their their farms program. But I looked at southwest and I looked at Swanny because at that time Swanny had the extra, the extra benefit of understanding in my mind.

00:31:57:11 – 00:32:22:16

Speaker 1

It’s the understanding that if you want to go solve a problem, sometimes it means that you got to do a little bit more than your finger fair share when it comes to the cost share. And so that’s why we chose the. The numbers we did was to lean more on to the the Suwannee side of how they chose to do that cost share rather than say, Swift or even certainly even backs.

00:32:22:17 – 00:32:46:12

Speaker 1

And so I’m curious about because you were there right when you were really putting some of those things together at the Swan River Water Management District, right? Yeah. What was the thinking in your mind? Because you’re I mean, from a farm town, you’re around these folks. What did you bring to that as a group at that time? What was your thinking in developing your own program?

00:32:46:15 – 00:33:11:17

Speaker 2

Whenever you look at the practices across the district, certainly the soils. And if you look at the soil types in the northern part of the district and certainly the eastern part, you have more of a surface water control type environment. Whenever ordering, you’re below that Cody Escarpment, whether the geological feature that runs through the Suwannee District and then out into the Panhandle.

00:33:11:19 – 00:33:37:02

Speaker 2

When you get below that, you get a lot deeper sense. And so your farming practices have to change, and that that familiarity with those farming practices is kind of what I brought to the table and awareness of working with ag producers in those areas. And it’s a very collaborative effort. And one of the things that, and I can’t take full credit for it is the development and expansion of the Suwannee River partnership.

00:33:37:04 – 00:34:04:12

Speaker 2

As I mentioned, it was a visioning, and early on there was an advisory group made up of both private industry and you had the forest Service, you had the Florida Fertilizer Association, Farm Bureau that served in the steering committee aspect of it. But you also had your more progressive ag producers that were there wanting to put on the ground what works and being able to build those relationships there.

00:34:04:14 – 00:34:37:08

Speaker 2

And it served well over the years. The Suwannee River partnership is still viable today, and it’s in more of an advisory role. Early on in the years, we were working towards trying to address the Tmdl that were in place on the Suwannee and the Santa Fe and develop some reasonable assurance about, for those and then moving into the development of the B maps with it and working very closely with DEP and engaging, and then also in the stakeholder outreach associated with that.

00:34:37:08 – 00:34:58:03

Speaker 2

So I would say DEP relied heavily, at least in the Suwannee area. DEP relied heavily on us to help bring those stakeholders to the table from an awareness perspective. Even out in northwest, whenever you were there, I remember going out there and working with folks in the Jackson County area and went over the B map on Jackson blue was coming into place out there, right?

00:34:58:03 – 00:35:24:10

Speaker 1

And and just from my own perspective, it’s like those things the Swan River partnership existed for years and years before, you know, I was at northwest somewhere, and especially long before they were establishing the B map at Jackson Blue. And so I think probably some of the, some of the, the hiccups and discomforts and, you know, Charley horses that happened in Jackson Blue, it probably didn’t work through, you know, with, with all those folks were working together.

00:35:24:10 – 00:35:47:19

Speaker 1

I think underlying that is this philosophy of caring about farms and farming and farmers, but understanding that you’ve got a job to do on the other side, which is the state has rules and laws, you know, for not just, you know, water quality, but water quantity as well. And we’ll talk about that shift to water quantity for you.

00:35:47:22 – 00:36:15:13

Speaker 1

But what is I mean, is that something that you share in terms of how you approach that, which is you’ve got the absolute need for food, fiber, timber and the responsibilities that I just mentioned. Did you see that missing when you looked at Jackson Blue later on? I was like, hey, we if you had only done it this way, that you’d seen this rodeo before.

00:36:15:15 – 00:36:37:00

Speaker 2

I will tell you one of the first observations that I had when I went out there for the B map meeting, I had been asked by Farm Bureau as and I was at dak’s at the time, but I’ve been asked by Farm Bureau to come out and speak out there. Dak’s didn’t have a strong presence in the Panhandle at that time, and just from a field staff perspective.

00:36:37:02 – 00:37:06:23

Speaker 2

And so I was a little bit nervous going out there into a strange neighborhood. And I recall at at particular meeting, I don’t remember if you were there or not, but I recall at that meeting talking about some of the challenges that we had over in the Suwannee district, Springs protection and how this water quality, standard water quality goal would help preserve that spring or restore that spring back to where it was.

00:37:07:01 – 00:37:38:10

Speaker 2

And, you know, looking at it as it is across our state, agriculture is not the only influence from a water quality perspective with it. And so making agriculture understand that all the fingers aren’t pointing at them, that there’s a there’s a host of loading sources with this and that the need is to address all of them. Right. In some areas of our state, agriculture has the lion’s share just because of the land use, like in the Swansea district, per se.

00:37:38:14 – 00:38:10:04

Speaker 2

And so trying to finding common ground with those ag producers, I think that that served me very well in being able to engage with those producers going out and spending time with them. And I like to think that developing some level of trust with those producers, early on in my career at the Department of Egg, I recall going and meeting with the producer, and they had a one of these two seat large cab tractors, and I was talking to him about record keeping.

00:38:10:05 – 00:38:36:14

Speaker 2

And so he said, well, yeah, producers are busy from daylight to dark. And so he said, well, you know, if you can climb up in here with me and ride with me so we can talk about it, so I did. I’ve got up, got in the second seat and as he was planting peanuts across his field, I rode with him and talk to him, talk to him about the water quality issues and you know, what we were trying to do at the department to help agriculture be sustainable.

00:38:36:16 – 00:39:07:15

Speaker 2

And so with that, I think that spinning that time out on the farm and that’s one of the things that we have been very blessed with over at the Suwannee District, is a support from IFAs and from the Department of Agriculture and the Department Environmental protection for having technicians out on the ground, working in lockstep with these ag producers and meeting them on their terms, their ground and talking to them, not not asking them to come to a meeting necessarily at the district headquarters.

00:39:07:17 – 00:39:28:06

Speaker 2

They know now, if we call for a meeting at the district headquarters, if they can do it, if they can break away from what they’re doing in the field, they show up. They know it’s important that we have their best interest in mind. And I think that’s what worked out in the Panhandle and getting that, getting the trust of the producers out there and working.

00:39:28:11 – 00:39:43:15

Speaker 2

You know, we hired Dave Cameron out there. and then they went to work northwest. That’s right. And I think that serve the ag community very well served the district northwest very well. With that, him having that relationship developed along with the technicians out in the Panhandle.

00:39:43:15 – 00:39:58:14

Speaker 1

Right. And that, I mean, that’s precisely why I wanted him there was because of that or just like somebody that’s willing to stand on a farm and look somebody in the eye and explain things like, I care about what you do. It’s like, but we’ve got this. We’ve got this job that we’ve got to accomplish in the in the midst of that.

00:39:58:17 – 00:40:02:10

Speaker 1

Right. And you’ve got to be able to find that balance.

00:40:02:12 – 00:40:24:14

Speaker 2

You do. And and, you know, I speak to my staff now about this because we have some younger staff that are working at the office and texting or an email is so easy. I get it, you know, it is. It’s very convenient. If you want me, text me, you know, and and I can fit it into my schedule at that point.

00:40:24:14 – 00:40:54:03

Speaker 2

But ag producers certainly the younger generation of egg producers are incorporating that. And but by and large, ag producers want a phone call or they want a farm visit to do that. And I stress that to my staff, particularly our regulatory staff, is that, you know, if we have an issue with someone and it’s not necessarily just an ag producer, pick up the phone and call, talk to somebody, even if you have to leave them a voicemail, don’t just write them a letter and it don’t just send them an email.

00:40:54:04 – 00:40:56:09

Speaker 2

That’s challenging because that takes.

00:40:56:09 – 00:40:57:05

Speaker 1

Time, right?

00:40:57:07 – 00:41:01:00

Speaker 2

To do that. And you’re you’re getting into your personal space.

00:41:01:00 – 00:41:30:13

Speaker 1

I’ve always felt you have to allow yourself to, to do that because the dividends in the long run are are massive. And you mentioned before as like you said, progressive. I know you didn’t mean in the political sense, you meant in the way they look forward at solving problems, the visionary. Right. And it’s funny because, you know, you and I both know, you know, some of the big ones out there, Mr. Pittman and Bishop and Hall and Forester and a lot of folks that ran their farms from their iPhone.

00:41:30:13 – 00:41:49:20

Speaker 1

That’s right. But at the same time, when you’re talking about relationships, relationships don’t happen over your iPhone. They happen, 1 to 1. They are on your farm. Yep. I always wanted to make that a point for folks and have folks that work that would do that. That’s why I love having David at the district office, because they would they would do that.

00:41:49:20 – 00:41:51:16

Speaker 1

And I think and I think it does matter.

00:41:51:18 – 00:42:21:21

Speaker 2

It does. It really does. You know, when you think about the average age of our farmers, they’re 55 or older. And so when you look at that generation and, and I know how I am because I fit into that generation, they want that one on one time, you know, they’ll use a phone. They’ll know I got 65 year old producers and the Swanny district that utilize your iPhones to, see what their soil moisture probes are telling them, and they’ve adopted it, but they still like that interaction.

00:42:21:22 – 00:42:24:16

Speaker 2

Yeah, it’s just part of the way of life.

00:42:24:21 – 00:42:52:19

Speaker 1

Yeah. And so let’s move you into your position now as executive director. The district has seven years now, right? Seven years. Can you talk about pressure on the water sources in your region and how the pressure on those resources often comes outside the boundaries of your district? And sometimes that means north, which is easy to be mad at in Georgia, but sometimes that means east and God forbid, west.

00:42:52:21 – 00:43:26:11

Speaker 2

Right? It does. It does. And, you know, you have to to me, education about our resources, our aquifer, our water supply, the water cycle they teach in school. Tying all of that together is kind of where you have to start with someone, because in North Florida, the complexity of the geology that we have and how that affects our aquifer, how that affects our recharge and our water use, it’s critical to have an understanding of that.

00:43:26:11 – 00:43:57:06

Speaker 2

The onus is on us as a district to try and understand the connectivity of our aquifer better, and we’re still in the process of that. We’re still putting in monitoring networks and enhancing our monitoring networks to better understand how water moves within our district and what contributes within a spring, shared or a river shed. You know, I think about when Water Management District were first formed, they were formed and they still are today based upon surface watersheds.

00:43:57:08 – 00:44:21:20

Speaker 2

If you look at the Swanee, 53% of the Suwannee Basin is in Georgia. People always think about, you know, where the Swanny is, the Florida River. Well, it is, but it’s the smaller part of the storm, right? When you look at a watershed perspective. And so you have to look at all of those influences, and certainly both within our state and across the state, and then within our district and into the other districts.

00:44:21:22 – 00:44:48:15

Speaker 2

The geology allows for that water to be drawn or to be influenced from outside of the Suwannee district boundaries. And so with that, you have to approach it from a collaborative fashion, because like with Georgia or even internally within the state, nobody wants to wind up in the court system with this because that money does not do any good from rectifying the problem with it.

00:44:48:17 – 00:45:15:21

Speaker 2

So that’s one of the things in similar like but the Swan River partnership and developing incentive based programs or just knowledge in education, by and large, people want to do the right thing with it. And so making them aware of that connectivity and those influences that happen is a large part of it. We’ve been working with the our district and through the Department of AG, we’ve been working with producers, up in the Georgia Basin.

00:45:15:23 – 00:45:49:13

Speaker 2

Wendy Graham had a program for about six years. It was the facets program, and that was the areas of study where the Santa Fe Basin and also the Flint River basin, so that provide it a lot of collaborative discussions relative to what best management practices are, what innovative technology is out there. And so one of the things that I’ve had some discussions with others about in Georgia is the financial incentives to implement efficient technology are very limited.

00:45:49:13 – 00:46:08:21

Speaker 2

Most of that is federal funding. I think it would be beneficial. And those ag producers that have come over and visited us in Suwannee to see what soil moisture probes do, automated technology control, release, fertilizer, how can that be utilized. And so, you know, our problems are solvable.

00:46:08:23 – 00:46:09:09

Speaker 1

Right?

00:46:09:10 – 00:46:14:23

Speaker 2

It’s just getting everybody on board and and being able to implement the technology.

00:46:15:01 – 00:46:43:08

Speaker 1

And some of them aren’t that expensive. I mean, you look at I know in your district mine the same way. It’s like a mobile irrigation lab is not that expensive to operate now. And so to and to be able to go on some nice farm and just evaluate something and say, if you did it this way for almost no money, it’s like you can you’re not going to just save water and save, you know, nutrients, like you’re literally going to save money and you’re going to have the same production right now from from your acreage.

00:46:43:08 – 00:47:08:19

Speaker 2

And then, you know, again, it comes back to that education aspect, right? That I think is at the heart of of making people aware and, and showing them how to do the right thing and what to do with it. You mentioned the mobile irrigation, as I think about one of the one of the pieces of technology that’s been very successful in our area and other parts of the state that install moisture probes, your producers in the northwest started using them whenever I was with that.

00:47:08:21 – 00:47:33:02

Speaker 2

And just that simple piece of technology and it’s evolved over the years or but that that can allow a producer, depending upon the crops and the soil types, they can save 30 to 60% all over what their base irrigation was. And that’s a tremendous savings from a water aspect and just from the cost of pumping, right. Whether it’s diesel or electric.

00:47:33:05 – 00:47:49:14

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think people missed, the ideas like that, that farmers want to just put as much water as they could conceivably get on to a crop, and they don’t realize that it’s one of two ways those pumps and systems run on two things electricity or diesel. And both of those cost a lot of money.

00:47:49:14 – 00:48:15:01

Speaker 2

They do two really do profit margins. Similar to everything else with rising costs, profit margins have shrunk. And so producers are eager to implement where they are convinced and they they trust. Whether it’s true IFAs extension agent it’s your Suwannee River partnership technician Department of egg field set. They trust that what you’re telling them works and that you’ve got the research to back it up.

00:48:15:06 – 00:48:34:08

Speaker 1

So I’ve spent some time around you and your staff while they’re discussing some pretty innovative ways of expanding the water pie, as we like to say sometimes, while also improving water quality. Can you talk about maybe just 1 or 2 of those, just to give people a flavor for what you got going on?

00:48:34:10 – 00:49:09:00

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think that there’s a lot of opportunities to address our water supply concerns and addressing the water quality. At the same time, it just takes thinking out of the box a little bit and doing things maybe a little bit differently than what the way they’ve been done in the past. And and that’s one of the things that early on with the partnership, the effort was primarily oriented towards dairies and poultry operations, you know, and years ago, the dairy wastewater that was a liability, something to have to be dealt with.

00:49:09:00 – 00:49:26:21

Speaker 2

It was it. And producers now look at that is that that can be a revenue stream and it can be also a water supply. And certainly as the districts we can look at it and say, okay, there’s opportunity for reuse there. If we’re able to clean that water up a little bit. All right. And so I’m appreciative of the dairies.

00:49:26:21 – 00:49:57:10

Speaker 2

A lot of the dairies being proactive in stepping up and with a little bit of, financial assistance from the state and from the district, we’re able to assist as producers in filtering that water and being able to reuse some of that water from a flushing perspective, and then certainly putting it out for irrigation, utilizing the nutrients on their field associated with some of that not stuff specifically to dairies, are looking at denitrification structures.

00:49:57:10 – 00:50:00:06

Speaker 2

Did they have any of the did y’all do any of those in North West?

00:50:00:06 – 00:50:04:17

Speaker 1

Well, I don’t think so. That doesn’t sound describe it a little bit more for it.

00:50:04:19 – 00:50:15:08

Speaker 2

If you’re familiar with back when underground storage tanks. And then they would use air sparring to blow off the blocks out of there, you know, basically pulling the vapors up out of the ground with it.

00:50:15:08 – 00:50:16:06

Speaker 1

Right.

00:50:16:08 – 00:50:42:17

Speaker 2

Somewhat similar with this is that with the nitrification structures, you go into an AG operation. If it’s on a crop field, you can go in there and put in relatively shallow wells that intercept the surficial, because it says nitrates move down through the soil profile, they’re going to hit that surficial first. So you put in a small the small wells in there to pull that surficial nitrate.

00:50:42:22 – 00:51:09:23

Speaker 2

Yeah. Okay. Pull it back to the surface. If they’re actively growing crops that can be incorporated into their irrigation system and basically recycle those nutrients or utilize minus those nutrients out, if they’re not growing a crop, then they can actually use a carbon source and put in a small pond, fill it. And the ones that we’ve assisted with have been primarily woodchips.

00:51:10:01 – 00:51:37:07

Speaker 2

Although, doctor Mark Clark with IFAs was doing some work looking at different media to try to optimize the, carbon exchange and nitrification. And so they can put that into the nitrification structure, this pond that holds it, which it media, and then clean that water up and put it back out into the aquifer. So that’s, that’s part of and some dairies have done that.

00:51:37:09 – 00:51:41:05

Speaker 2

Some crop systems are just traditional crop growing.

00:51:41:07 – 00:52:03:21

Speaker 1

The first half that I had heard, you know, in a conceptual sense. But but the other things I’ve seen is not in not necessarily capturing it on the ground side, but looking at saying to your soils, you look at swift mud and orange groves, especially where they’re doing tail water recovery nurseries as well, where you can capture it, put it in a place and then recycle it back in.

00:52:03:21 – 00:52:07:08

Speaker 1

If it’s not, you know, if it’s not harmful to the plant itself.

00:52:07:10 – 00:52:31:14

Speaker 2

Right. Control release technology, that’s another innovative. We’ve just really started working with the IFAs and the Department of A in our district, the research firm that we have over there with IFAs, they’re very proactive. Bob Smith has done a great job leading that group there. At first they were doing work on the IFAs farm itself, and they had buy in from the fertilizer companies.

00:52:31:14 – 00:52:52:22

Speaker 2

They provide the, product. And it really comes down to where it’s it’s a conventional fertilizer. It just has a polymer coating on it that specific to the crop. And the control release curve that you need for the growth of that crop. And so Bob and his team did work out on the farm there for probably about four years.

00:52:53:02 – 00:53:18:20

Speaker 2

And then it came time to move it out on the actual farms themselves. And I think last year we had 11 producers across our district that grew corn and also grew watermelons, and they had interest in utilizing it. And the results were very, very good. Is it a cure all or a total replacement for conventional fertilizer? Not necessarily.

00:53:18:20 – 00:53:38:00

Speaker 2

Depends on the weather and the just overall growing conditions and the management strategy that’s put in place with it. But you can see anywhere from 50 to 80 pounds less nitrogen applied for a comparable or superior crop yield.

00:53:38:05 – 00:53:39:09

Speaker 1

And heavy from an acre, right?

00:53:39:14 – 00:53:41:07

Speaker 2

Yeah, that’s from an acre perspective.

00:53:41:07 – 00:53:45:03

Speaker 1

And for folks who don’t know, I mean, that’s a pretty good number that’s up for reduction.

00:53:45:03 – 00:54:12:12

Speaker 2

Tremendous savings. You know, it it gets people back with either two or below the IFAs recommended rates sometimes because you’re reducing the potential for that fertilizer to leach based off on the irrigation. And it certainly takes irrigation management that that we have learned is the key to all of it is irrigation management, because at least in our district, because of nitrate, nitrogen being the soluble contaminant.

00:54:12:15 – 00:54:46:09

Speaker 2

And so being able to manage your irrigation system is critical. That’s why the Suwannee District and Dak’s in our area has focused primarily on irrigation management tools. with that, and we’ve had a great symbiotic relationship with with Dak’s. I like to think that our AG team that was there prior to me coming to the district was instrumental in getting that on the ground, working to where you don’t necessarily have overlap, but you do have a collaborative approach to the agencies to get those efficient practices out on the ground.

00:54:46:10 – 00:55:07:17

Speaker 1

One of the things I’ve been jealous of when I was at Northwest of this wanting district, was the incredible job of highlighting recreational opportunities available to visitors in your area. You all happened to be as small as you’re having a really good at communicating. How big of a priority is that for you and your board?

00:55:07:17 – 00:55:31:05

Speaker 2

Well, communication is key and we have a great comms staff. Caitlin Potter makes up oversees that in Troy Roberts. We were able to bring Troy over from the Department of Transportation, and he’s done a stellar job for us as far as outreach goes and the the communication aspect of it, you know, relative to our public lands, it’s critical.

00:55:31:05 – 00:56:01:19

Speaker 2

And our board is is very serious about keeping our taxpayer lands open and available to the public. We’ve got better than 90% of our lands open for public use. And with that, we’ve got over 160,000 acres, and we’ve got about 390 miles of roads through there, 250 plus or minus miles of hiking trails. And with the Swanny, I like to think we’re the best district in the state.

00:56:01:22 – 00:56:35:06

Speaker 2

We are known as the Springs Heartland because the more than 450 springs that we have in our district, and as Steve Minnis, was always fond of saying, we’re the fifth largest district in the state geographically and the staffing in budgetary wise, it’s a great opportunity if you’re visiting our area to come out our our lands are so diverse and FGS just recognize our Ginnie Springs Bluff is is one of the unique areas in Florida that happened last year.

00:56:35:08 – 00:56:36:08

Speaker 2

it’s a designation.

00:56:36:11 – 00:56:38:15

Speaker 1

What makes it unique? What what do they.

00:56:38:20 – 00:56:48:19

Speaker 2

Just because of the disappearing river that we have here? Okay. and that, you know, that’s one of the things all have some of it in your hip in northwest. We keep saying your area butts Lyle’s area. And I.

00:56:48:19 – 00:56:49:01

Speaker 1

Know.

00:56:49:05 – 00:57:06:19

Speaker 2

One of the one of the more popular areas that’s known about is only in a state park when where you have a natural land bridge there and, and I’m kind of a history buff when it comes to Florida as well. And, you know, I think about the old Bellamy Trail that came from Tallahassee up this way all the way over to Jacksonville.

00:57:06:19 – 00:57:31:05

Speaker 2

Well, that natural land bridge right there on the Santa Fe was an area where pioneers could cross without having to, you know, take a ferry across the river, and it’s about three miles wide. Well, that the entirety of the Santa Fe River goes underground at that point. And then three miles downstream, it comes back up. The interesting thing that I’ve had, and I am not a cave diver, don’t want to be don’t have any interest in it.

00:57:31:05 – 00:57:55:15

Speaker 2

Thank you. But cave divers that I’ve spoken with, while it’s on the surface, it’s only three miles underground. They’ve got more than 11 miles mapped. And you think about that. And that just speaks to the complexity of our aquifer, you know, in our area and the and the uniqueness. with that, you know, I like to think of Suwannee as being one of the most in North Florida in this area, being one of the more unique areas.

00:57:55:17 – 00:58:15:11

Speaker 1

Yeah, for sure. No doubt about it. Going to speaking of your board again, can you give us an idea of like, I don’t think a lot of people, even I think even folks that that do what we do for don’t really spend much time knowing who they are, introducing themselves, what kind of folks that are on these boards.

00:58:15:16 – 00:58:28:20

Speaker 1

Let’s just talk about years. I mean, they’re men and women. They’re volunteers. And I don’t think people have a strong grasp of why they’re there and what and how important they are to your mission at the district.

00:58:28:22 – 00:59:08:06

Speaker 2

our board is critical. Our governing boards are critical, you know, to the development of our water policy. I am very fortunate. I love my board, got a great group of people with it, and they give me and our staff a lot of support with that. They don’t mind calling. We like to I like to have the relationship with our board for me and my staff, that if we have a question about something or if our board has a question about something, they can pick up the phone and call me or call the appropriate staff member so they, you know, when you think about somebody, volunteer their time and the amount of effort that

00:59:08:06 – 00:59:31:19

Speaker 2

goes into our board materials and attending a board meeting once a week, twice in September with a budget. It’s a lot to ask of somebody, right? And they all have a keen interest in our water resources. they have a keen interest in our public interest within the district. And so it takes a special person, I think, to serve on the board.

00:59:31:21 – 01:00:08:06

Speaker 2

our board members, they, they’re made up of currently made up of construction company own. We’ve got folks that work within the ag industry both in the supply and commercial leg operation, retail sales. It’s a diverse background and they tend to certainly support each other. But they it makes to me, it makes it a more rounded, developed board to look at all the water policy we’re developing minimum flows and minimum water levels, which are complex, and taking the time to learn about those so that they can make the right decisions.

01:00:08:07 – 01:00:30:20

Speaker 1

Yeah. And I think that’s something that I think people might miss is how much time they spend outside of those board meetings, you know, or workshops or what have you understanding these things that other people have dedicated their careers to. And now they’re now they’re being forced into position and making these, these broad decisions about those and how much, how much work and effort they put into to doing that.

01:00:30:23 – 01:01:00:10

Speaker 2

And a lot of times they’re the first line of encounter. Oh, out here within the within the communities, the you know, we’ve got some At-Large seats, we’ve got basins, specific seats. And they’re known within the community that they serve on the water management issue. So somebody has got a question about their environmental resource permit or, you know, what might be needed or something they saw in the paper relative to flooding or to a minimum flow, minimal water level development workshop.

01:01:00:12 – 01:01:02:00

Speaker 2

They’re going to get the call.

01:01:02:02 – 01:01:07:14

Speaker 1

How can folks find out more about what your district is up to, and how they can engage with the work that you all are doing?

01:01:07:20 – 01:01:29:18

Speaker 2

Well, I like to think that we have a great looking website now, and that our comms group has been taking care of that, along with our IT folks. Swanny my Suwannee river.com. You can go there and find a whole host of information anywhere from about our staff and board members to the activities that we’re involved in, our cost share grant programs.

01:01:29:18 – 01:01:59:01

Speaker 2

We have a grant portal that’s located on there that if someone has a proposal to submit relative to water quality improvement or water supply project, they can submit that information. There. We also have at that same link, my Swanee river.com. We also have an interactive lens, a district lens map on there that you can go in if you have a particular county that you live in or want to visit, you can click on that county.

01:01:59:03 – 01:02:16:04

Speaker 2

You can find out what district lands are there, what activities are allowed, what springs are present, what amenities there are, whether camping is allowed, whether hunting is allowed, horseback riding, what the trails look like. And you can go in and gather that information from that interactive map. So.

01:02:16:06 – 01:02:32:03

Speaker 1

yeah, it’s great. I encourage people to check it out. It’s really well done. All right. So when it came to your time inside government in the past, and now, is there something you feel left undone or something that you may have approached differently?

01:02:32:05 – 01:02:54:03

Speaker 2

Well, as a as I mentioned earlier, I’m kind of a history buff and I don’t know if you know Clay Henderson or not, but Clay is he’s been involved with I think he last retired from Stetson. but he’s doing a little bit of environmental consulting. He I saw him down at the wildlife corridor meeting, and I always enjoy talking with him and his latest book, Forces of Nature.

01:02:54:03 – 01:03:20:05

Speaker 2

It’s very informative relative to conservation programs in Florida, right over the history of Florida. And it’s been very interesting reading for me. When I look at that and I look at the history of Florida, to me, one of the things that I would looking back, I would like to have been a little bit better done has to be growth management and growth planning to try to protect our natural areas more.

01:03:20:05 – 01:03:40:08

Speaker 2

And when you look at South Florida Everglades and certainly our coastal regions there, and see the amount of growth, you have to know that you’re going to have growth. And we’ve had astronomical growth under current administration and just people wanting to move into into Florida. Sure. You know, when you have days like today, it’s no wonder people want to live in Florida.

01:03:40:10 – 01:04:25:06

Speaker 2

Certainly that growth planning and trying to have smart growth. And when you look at the land pie overall, it’s really split up between agricultural purposes, public ownership, or commercial residential. And so when you start thinking about how does that shape up from a pressure standpoint, agriculture generally loses out because of the other two interests. And so when you think about the benefits of agriculture, the greenspace that it provides in the ecosystem, the complete suite of ecosystem services that it provides that for so long have been taken for granted in figuring out where those green spaces need to be.

01:04:25:10 – 01:04:37:05

Speaker 2

And be maintained, and where development can occur without having as large an impact on the land surface in our in our land, resources that are limited.

01:04:37:07 – 01:04:41:07

Speaker 1

Are you optimistic about the future of the environment and water in Florida?

01:04:41:13 – 01:05:11:12

Speaker 2

I am, you know, I look at the I look at the amount of effort and funding that has been put in for trying to preserve and conserve green space and the technology that’s out there. I think that I think that we have or are getting the answers. The big thing is I think the awareness is there now. When I was growing up, there wasn’t there wasn’t a concern, there wasn’t an awareness of any potential water quality issues that we had not in not in our district anyway.

01:05:11:14 – 01:05:32:05

Speaker 2

And that was part of the education process that early on when I was with the Department of Egg, in talking with egg producers about Tmdl and B maps, they had no awareness in our area of what the terminology meant. And so sorry drew, but I could. I always use South Florida as, as an example with that in Lake Okeechobee area.

01:05:32:05 – 01:05:49:00

Speaker 2

Right. And so certainly I think that that is key in our education has grown so much. We still have a lot more to do, from an awareness perspective. But I think the legislature that we have has been very supportive. Our governors have been very supportive, of addressing those concerns.

01:05:49:00 – 01:05:58:01

Speaker 1

What advice would you give to young people who are just entering or have interested in entering the environmental field, whether it’s public service or the private sector?

01:05:58:05 – 01:06:25:07

Speaker 2

I would say get involved. There’s a lot of programs, there’s a lot of outreach efforts that are out there now. Our youngest daughter is attending FSU up here, and there’s some programs that she’s gotten involved with just because of her awareness of what we’ve had back home. And, and, and she likes the outdoors as well. Become aware of your surroundings, become aware of your environment, not just on the concrete side of things.

01:06:25:09 – 01:06:49:21

Speaker 2

Put your phones down, go out. And I know here in Tallahassee y’all have a number of parks that I didn’t even know existed until my youngest moved up here. But go out and enjoy the outdoors. Learn what you can about the environment. We have learned a lot about our water resources, our aquifer, our coastal areas, but we still got a lot to learn.

01:06:49:23 – 01:06:57:07

Speaker 2

Our climate becoming what it is. Sometimes it can be more challenging and so learn how to address those concerns as well.

01:06:57:13 – 01:06:58:18

Speaker 1

I that’s a good place to start.

01:06:58:20 – 01:07:06:05

Speaker 2

And the last thing I want to add is, yeah, we at Swansea River Water Management District are hiring. So come see us for a job.

01:07:06:07 – 01:07:13:21

Speaker 1

There you go. I mean, working for a really good boss out there, folks. And on on that endorsement. Q Thomas, thanks so much for being on the show.

01:07:14:01 – 01:07:16:05

Speaker 2

Thank you, Brett, I appreciate the opportunity to be here.

01:07:16:09 – 01:07:38:21

Speaker 1

Yeah. Well, that’s it for this episode. Thanks for listening to water for fighting. If you’re enjoying the show, please be sure to subscribe and whatever platform you use. And don’t forget to leave a five star rating and a review. You can follow the show on LinkedIn and Instagram at FL Water Pod, and you can reach me directly at FL Water Pod at gmail.com with your comments and or suggestions about who or what you’d like to know more about production.

01:07:38:21 – 01:07:55:03

Speaker 1

This podcast is by Lonely Box Studios. Thanks to Carl Soren for making the best of what he had to work with, and David Barfield for the amazing graphics and technical assistance. A very special thank you goes out to Bo Spring from the Bow Spring Band for giving permission to use his music for the podcast. The song was called Doing Work for Free.

01:07:55:05 – 01:08:14:21

Speaker 1

You should check out the band live or wherever great music is sold. Join me next time for another amazing conversation with someone who has helped shape water and environmental policy in the sunshine State. Until then, keep your whiskey close and your water closer.